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Orange County Shooters
News from the Orange County NY, NY State and the Nation of interest to gun owners and sportsmen
DECEMBER 2002 Newsletter
JANNUARY 03
NEWSLETTER
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NEWSLETTER MAIN INDEX
SPECIAL EVENTS
ORANGE COUNTY & LOCAL NEWS
Calhoun named ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees Calhoun named ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees
Judge Rosenwasser and OC DA Phillips might run for new jobs Judge Rosenwasser and OC DA Phillips might run for new jobs

NY STATE NEWS

Putnam County Clerk asking for hands-on training for pistol permits and five year renewable licenses Putnam County Clerk asking for hands-on training for pistol permits and five year renewable licenses
Case filed in Federal Court to force NY to allow non-residents to apply for a pistol license, Bach v. Pataki, et alCase filed in Federal Court to force NY to allow non-residents to apply for a pistol license
NY City makes it illegal to carry a licensed handgun outside of NYC for any reason except hunting NY City makes it illegal to carry a licensed handgun outside of NYC for any reason except hunting

NATIONAL NEWS

Report on Sen. Frist: Stupid Republicans-- From Bad to Worse Report on Sen. Frist: Stupid Republicans-- From Bad to Worse
Supreme Court Unanimously Affirms Gun Control Provision Supreme Court Unanimously Affirms Gun Control Provision
Ninth Circuit Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban Ninth Circuit Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban
Delaware Judge Tosses Suit Against Gun Makers Delaware Judge Tosses Suit Against Gun Makers
LINKS ONLY
Twisted barrel of anti-gun logic by Thomas Sowell  
   

SOMETHING THAT I NEVER KNEW
(or forgot that I knew)

(I have added this to my Pistol License Misc. page)
Do I need to show my pistol license to buy Ammo?
     PL ARTICLE 270, OTHER OFFENSES RELATING TO PUBLIC SAFETY, Section 270.00
Unlawfully dealing with fireworks and dangerous fireworks.
contains the following:

5. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision four of this section, it shall be unlawful
for any dealer in firearms to sell any ammunition designed exclusively for use in a pistol or
revolver to any person, not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver. The violation of this
section shall constitute a class B misdemeanor.


     Most of the time the dealer will not ask you to show your license if it is a common rifle round such as a 22 cal. but if you ask for 9mm, 45 cal. or the other calibers that are normally considered "Pistol Ammo" they might ask. Some rifle maker has made a rifle in all of the calibers of what are normally considered "Pistol Ammo", in fact, that is the selling point for some Carbines, a Police officer can take a mag. with 9mm S&W and fire it out of a 9mm Carbine. If they ask, show them or if you have a rifle that shoots a 9mm or 45 Cal. just tell them.

MY 2 CENTS End of the year Report.


     2002 = Knight’s Range Closed, Shays/Meehan Campaign Finance Bill PASSED, NYC DEP requires new permits access to City reservoirs and City-owned watershed lands, NY State Rifle& Pistol Association starts RPA-PAC, Ban of lead sinkers, Airline pilots to be armed, Ashcroft supports 2nd Amendment but still supports restrictive gun laws, License fees for new season raised and DEC Automated Licensing System (DECALS), Shawangunk Fish & Game Sportsmens Extravaganza, DuBois WINS BIG!, Pataki wins, Wein does not get on the ballot, Arming America book author Michael Bellesiles Resigns from Emory Faculty, CoBIS, aka "Gun DNA" programs a big waste, NY City makes it illegal to carry a licensed handgun outside of NYC for any reason except hunting, law suits against NYC's new license system, Ninth Circuit Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban, Arming America taken out of Goshen Library

2003=? Renewable Pistol Licenses with higher fees and new training requirements, New Shows on the Outdoor Channel on Cable one from the NRA and one from Guns and Ammo hosted by Tom Gresham host of Tom Gresham's Gun Talk radio show, Court forces NYC to start issuing "Target Licenses" again and NYC will add rules and regulations that make it almost impossible to get one.

2003 to do: Give money to www.rpa-pac.org to help get pro-gun people elected, buy one or more GUN A DAY FOR THE MONTH OF APRIL 2003 tickets to support the Orange County Federation, buy another handgun and shoot more, watch the new TV shows by the NRA and Guns and Ammo tune in on the internet to TOM GRESHAM'S GUN TALK and chat room and NY's own The 2nd Amendment Radio Show , spend some time helping someone get elected, go to Albany in March as part of the March on Albany, shoot a 280 in Bullseye and for yet another year, redo OCShooters.com, get more libraies to remove "Arming America"

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR A GREAT YEAR!
I'LL SEE YOU IN 2003

ORANGE COUNTY NEWS

Calhoun named ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees Calhoun named ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees


     Assemblywoman Nancy Calhoun of Blooming Grove has been named ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees for the 2003 legislative session, by Assembly Republican Minority Leader Charles Nesbitt.  She will also serve as a member of the Insurance, Labor and Rules committees, and again as a member of the Leadership Council.
      As ranking minority member of the Committee on Standing Committees, Calhoun will be responsible for submitting reports to the Assembly minority leader’s office gathered from the ranking minority members of each Assembly committee. She will also coordinate and categorize local bills and work directly with the counsel’s office to help formulate policy.
      Calhoun was elected to office in 1990.( She has been a long time supporter of our rights and has gone above and beyond what is required to help support us.)

Judge Rosenwasser and OC DA Phillips might run for new jobs Judge Rosenwasser and OC DA Phillips might run for new jobs
From the T H-R, Political Notebook, 12/02/02

     He's not even halfway through his first 10-year term, but Orange County Court Judge Stewart Rosenwasser is already on his way up the judicial ladder. Courthouse sources in Goshen tell Notebook that Rosenwasser, of Montgomery, is expected to run for state Supreme Court, filling a vacancy that will be created when Justice Joseph G. Owen turns 70 next year. Owen can ask the state to recertificate him for a maximum of six more years in two-year increments. Regardless of whether Owen is recertificated, there'll still be a vacancy for the $136,700-a-year judgeship.
     Rosenwasser, a Republican, is barred by judicial rules from discussing whether he'll seek the higher office. But Orange County Republican Chairman John S. Hicks confirmed that party leaders have had the discussions about filling the seat that Owen will vacate. Hicks said those discussions have included party leaders from Westchester and Rockland. Supreme Court justices run for office in a five-county district that includes Orange, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and Dutchess counties.
     If Rosenwasser runs for the state bench, Hicks and other Republican insiders say that Orange County District Attorney Frank Phillips has the inside track at filling the vacancy in County Court. The judgeship, one of three county court positions in Goshen, pays $125,600.
     State Supreme Court is generally a venue for civil matters, such as personal-injury lawsuits and divorces. County Court is the venue for felony criminal matters.
     So what to call Rosenwasser if he makes the great leap forward to state Supreme Court? In County Court, where he took office in 2000, Rosenwasser's been given the nickname "Maximum Stew." Notebook's going with "Supreme Maximum Stew."


NEW YORK STATE NEWS

Putnam County Clerk asking for hands-on training for pistol permits and five year renewable licenses Putnam County Clerk asking for hands-on training for pistol permits and five year renewable licenses.
CLICK HERE TO SEE THE WHOLE STORY IN THE JOURNAL NEWS

     12/21/02 Dennis Sant, Putnam County Clerk, is calling for renewable licenses and required hand-on training for anyone seeking pistol permits. This is something that comes up every year but in the past few years some counties, like Westchester, have had "HOME RULE" laws passed for local counties. The rumor is that Pataki would like to see it across the whole state.
     Counties want renewable licenses because they still have most of the licenses on their books that were issued in the 30's and 40's. Many of the people who are licensed are dead or have moved and Clerks just want to have clean books and some people wonder what happened to all the guns. And don't forget that the want to raise money, on county tried to raise the fee to $200.
     TOUGH!! The law was never intended to keep track of all of the active gun owners or to keep track of the guns after the licensed owners move or die. When they passed the law they knew that if they had a renewable license that at some point the licensing system would be abused and one can have no finer example than NY City. They now have 2 year licenses, you have to take every gun in for them to check the serial number, they charge you an arm and a leg, they make you wait for hours, if you mess up and break any one of their minor rules or are late in your renewal that's it for you. It does not matter if they people in charge now are nice or not or if the rules are acceptable. 10, 20 or 50 years from now someone can come up with new rules and gun owners will be SCREWED! Just like they did in NY City when they decided that all of those registered long guns should be banned. Now they have changed the handgun licenses in NY City so that they are not even valid outside of NYC in the rest of the state. The rule makers in the city know that what they are doing is against NY law but they do not care. They feel that if you don't like it, take your time and money and bring a lawsuit and guess what? You can not bring a class action suite, each person has to bring a suite. As far a hands on training, WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE and how much will it COST? I can see the lawyers lining up now to bring lawsuits.
     I just bought a handgun from someone in NYC. They were too scared to sell the gun directly to me as allowed by NY law so they gave it to an FFL in Suffern. When I got all of the paperwork done and got my pickup slip and went to pick up the handgun the FFL still did a BRADY check. Two days latter the gun's original owner called me up asking for a copy of my license listing the handgun. It seems that the NY City Pistol Department wanted to track his gun through the transfer to an FFL to me. What idiots!!!!! Nothing in the law allows them to do that in any way. That's why you have FFL's!!!! And what is going to happen if you get a new Judge who decides that no one should have more than 3 guns, (that's OK according to NY Court rulings,) or that no one should own even old 10+ capacity handguns. He's going to have to sign off on your retable license every 5 years.

Case filed in Federal Court to force NY to allow non-residents to apply for a pistol license, Bach v. Pataki, et alCase filed in Federal Court to force NY to allow non-residents to apply for a pistol license
Information supplied by Michael B. Justice at rantpipe dot com
CLICK HERE TO SEE THE FILES IN pdf
U.S. District Court
Northern District of New York (Albany)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 02-CV-1500
Bach v. Pataki, et al
Filed: 11/29/02

      A case was recently filed in the US District Court (Northern District NY) attempting to prevent the state from enforcing the section(s) of law that prevent a non-resident from applying for a pistol license.
      The Memorandum of Law alone is a pretty good read. You can download
the contents at:   http://www.rantpipe.com/NYPistol/BachVPataki/
      All the files in the docket are available in .PDF format. I downloaded the files from the Pacer system - a pay per page file system maintained by the federal court system. As additional files become available, I will update my site (and notify you)

NY City makes it illegal to carry a licensed handgun outside of NYC for any reason except hunting NY City makes it illegal to carry a licensed handgun outside of NYC for any reason except hunting
(Click here to see a gif file, (173kb,)of the reply letter)

On 11/4/02 I sent the following letter:

Cpt. Roy Richter
One Police Plaza
New York, NY 10038

Dear Cpt. Richter:

I have two question.
First:
New York City has started only issuing a PREMISES LICENSE and your web site states:
Licensees may also transport their handguns and ammunition in SEPARATE LOCKED CONTAINERS, DIRECTLY to and from an authorized range, or hunting location. HANDGUNS MUST BE UNLOADED WHEN TRANSPORTING.
QUESTION 1: Is the new PREMISES LICENSE valid throughout New York State so that a person with a new PREMISES LICENSE can legally travel to public ranges or private clubs or land within the rest of New York State without being arrested or having his/her guns confiscated because they do not hold a valid license?

Second:
NY State Penal Law Section 400 contains the following:
6. License: validity. ... A license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, not otherwise limited as to place or time of possession, shall be effective throughout the state, except that the same shall not be valid within the city of New York unless a special permit granting validity is issued by the police commissioner of that city.

QUESTION 2: How can someone from another county in New York State get a special permit that would allow them to carry a handgun to a range in NY City for practice or competition?

On 12/5/02 I got the following reply:

The City of New York Police Department
License Division
One Police Plaza, Room 110
New York, NY 10038
(646) 610-5560

December 2,2002

George W. Rogero
P .0. Box 340
Washingtonville, NY 10992
Dear Mr. Rogero:

     Your letter to Captain Richter concerning premise handgun licenses has been referred to me for reply. In response to your first question regarding the validity of New York City premise licenses outside the City, please note that a premise license issued by the New York City Police Department is limited as to place of possession, and therefore would not be valid outside the licensed premises. There are two exceptions to this rule, however. A licensee may transport his licensed handgun unloaded, in a locked container with the ammunition carried separately while travelling to or from an authorized range or shooting club in New York City. The other exception covers New York City premise licenses with a hunting authorization. Those licensees may transport their licensed handgun to an authorized area designated by the New York State Fish and Wildlife law. Again, the handgun must be transported unloaded, in a locked container with the ammunition carried separately.
     Regarding your second question, the New York City Police Department only issues special validations for business carry and carry guard/security licenses issued by counties outside of the City of New York. As the New York City Police Department no longer issues target licenses, it will not validate a target license issued by another county.
     If you would like further information regarding this matter, you may contact either Sergeant Michael Marten or Sergeant Christopher Montagna of my staff. They can be reached at 646-610-5551.

Yours truly yours
Thomas M. Prasso
Director

UPDATE

     Several law suits have been brought against NY City. One case, an Article 78 hearing, was argued in November and we should have our first ruling around the end of December or in January.


NATIONAL

Report on Sen. Frist: Stupid Republicans-- From Bad to Worse Report on Sen. Frist: Stupid Republicans-- From Bad to Worse
By David Codrea codrea4@adelphia.net
from the Citizens of America, A National Pro-Gun Rights Advertising Campaign

     A Washington Post report (http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14370-2002Dec19.html) claims "Sen. [Bill] Frist Emerges as Potential Lott Successor... the second-term Tennessean issued a statement saying he would 'likely step forward' if Republicans decided they want Trent Lott of Mississippi to step down..."
     What does that mean for gun owners?
     Simply that they will be replacing one oathbreaker with another- and one with a worse record on guns. According to Gun Owners of America's Senate ratings,( http://gunowners.org/107srat.htm ) Lott came in with a shameful "C-". Frist merits an abominable D", despite an "Archives of Surgery" report: http://archsurg.ama-assn.org/issues/v133n10/ffull/slt1098-1.html claiming he "has accepted substantial campaign contributions from the National Rifle Association." (According to Common Cause, the NRA gave Frist over $177,000 in 1998-1999.) ( http://commoncause.org/publications/nov99/110599.htm )
Among Frist's actions that resulted in his abysmal GOA score?

  • Helping kill the filibuster on the Shays-Meehan Incumbent Protection bill, a sham "campaign finance reform" measure "which squelches the voice of pro-gun organizations." http://gunowners.org/a032102.htm
  • Voting "AGAINST the Smith filibuster and in favor of sending the [Gore-Lautenberg] anti-gun crime bill to a House-Senate conference committee." http://gunowners.org/a072999.htm
  • Being one of "the Republicans who betrayed gun owners and voted for the anti-gun crime bill (S. 254)..." http://gunowners.org/a052199.htm
  • Joining other stupid Republicans who "retreated and gave up significant 2nd Amendment ground. On two separate occasions, scores of Republicans crossed party lines to support gun control proposals." http://gunowners.org/a051499.htm
  • Voting "to confirm anti-gun Dr. David Satcher as the next Surgeon General...[and] liberal, judicial activist (Ms. Margaret Morrow) a seat on the federal bench..." http://gunowners.org/a022198.htm
  • Voting against the interests of gun owners on these key issues: "Government wiretapping of innocent citizens and gun owners" "Anti-gun terror bill" "Anti-gun terror bill -- final passage" "Lautenberg Domestic Confiscation Gun Ban" "Kohl 'Gun Free Zones' Ban" http://gunowners.org/104svote.htm


     Memo to stupid Republicans: Time and again, gun owners have handed you victory. Yet time and again you betray us, figuring we have no choice but to support the lesser of two evils. Enough of us have wised up to you and refuse to play this game any longer. Continued betrayal of your oath of office and of the Constitution will no longer be tolerated-- and there are enough of us who are enraged by your infidelity to deny you that critical margin of a percentage point or two by which most elections are won.
     Trent Lott has been an unprincipled disaster-his being forced to fall on his sword is a good thing. But Bill Frist is a completely unacceptable replacement. Republicans will elect him Senate majority leader at the risk of enraging and alienating the most reliable constituency they have ever had.
     Memo to gun owners: If you agree that electing Bill Frist will be a slap in the face to gun owners with dangerous potential once he's in power, let the Republican leadership know. Demand that they elect a leader who is committed to protecting the entire Bill of Rights. Tell them you will accept nothing less. Contact them immediately.
     EMAIL them at: info@rnc.org and webmaster@nrsc.org and at any other addresses you have, particularly your Senator's if he or she is a Republican.
     MUCH BETTER: Write to them via regular mail at Republican National Committee, 310 First Street, SE, Washington, DC 20003. Call them at (202)863-8500. Fax them at (202)863-8820.
Do it now. Let them know they are creating a huge problem that does not need to be. Help nip this in the bud before Frist gains unstoppable political momentum - and to let them know you'll be watching closely if he IS voted in.
Finally -- send this email to your friends.

COA PRODUCES, DISTRIBUTES, AND PAYS TO RUN PRO-GUN RIGHTS ADVERTISING. DONATE AND HELP US REACH THE PUBLIC WITH OUR MESSAGES,WHICH YOU CAN SEE AND HEAR ON OUR WEBSITE: www.citizensofamerica.org

Supreme Court Unanimously Affirms Gun Control Provision Supreme Court Unanimously Affirms Gun Control Provision
Federal Courts May Not Restore Ownership Right to Felons
The full ruling

By Charles Lane, Washington Post Staff Writer, Wednesday, December 11, 2002; Page A05

     The Supreme Court ruled yesterday that convicted felons who cannot get their right to own firearms reinstated by a Treasury Department agency may not turn to the federal courts for help, a decision that bolsters a key gun-control law intended to keep weapons out of criminals' hands. By a unanimous vote, the nine justices held that a federal district court lacked the authority to order Texas gun dealer Thomas Lamar Bean's firearms privileges restored after the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms declined to consider his request because Congress had refused to give it money to do so.
      "[M]ere inaction by ATF does not invest a district court with independent jurisdiction to act on an application," Justice Clarence Thomas wrote in the opinion for the court.
      Federal law bars gun possession by felons, but felons may ask the secretary of the Treasury, through ATF, to give them a second chance if it determines that they do not pose a threat to the community. For the past 10 years, however, Congress -- concerned about reports that dangerous people were exploiting this provision and then committing sometimes violent offenses -- has denied ATF any funds to implement it. Thus, when Bean approached ATF in 1999 to seek reinstatement of his gun privileges, which had been stripped because of a one-time conviction for illegally bringing bullets into Mexico, the agency sent his letter back. A Texas district judge, noting Bean's otherwise clean record, restored his privileges based on a part of the law that gives courts power to review "denials" by the ATF, and last year the New Orleans-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit affirmed the order, citing Bean's "almost incredible plight."
      The 5th Circuit's remark echoed the concerns of gun rights advocates, who argue that the ban on funding ATF gun privilege restorations is unfair to many people who commit technical or minor violations of the law. But the Bush administration, otherwise sympathetic to gun owners' concerns, appealed the ruling to the Supreme Court. And in the opinion yesterday, Thomas emphasized that "[i]naction by ATF does not amount to a 'denial,' " so the courts have no role.
      "The Court recognized that there is nothing in the law that would allow activist federal judges to deputize themselves as surrogate ATF agents and spend time and resources restoring gun privileges to convicted felons," said Mathew Nosanchuk, litigation director of the pro-gun control Violence Policy Center.
The case is U.S. v. Bean, No. 01-704.

Ninth Circuit Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban Ninth Circuit Federal Court Upholds California Assault Weapons Ban,
Strongly Rebuts Ashcroft Justice Department View That Second Amendment Guarantees an Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms P.R.Newswire, 12/5/2002 17:50

     WASHINGTON, Dec. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- In response to today's 72-page decision in Silveira v. Lockyer by the Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals unanimously upholding California's strict assault weapons ban and strongly rebutting the position embraced by Attorney General John Ashcroft that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE WHOLE OPINION
12/05/02 01-15098  SILVEIRA V LOCKYER

(72 pages in PDF format, takes several seconds to download)

SELECTED SECTIONS FROM THE OPINION:
(All words in BOLD are my emphasis)

     A robust constitutional debate is currently taking place in this nation regarding the scope of the Second Amendment, a debate that has gained intensity over the last several years. Until recently, this relatively obscure constitutional provision attracted little judicial or scholarly attention. As a result, however, of increasing popular concern over gun violence, the passage of legislation restricting the sale and use of firearms, the cultural significance of firearms in American society, and the political activities of pro-gun enthusiasts under the leadership of the National Rifle Association (the NRA), the disagreement over the meaning of the Second Amendment has grown particularly heated.
     We believe the answer to the definitional question is the one that most persons would expect: “militia” refers to a state military force. We reach our conclusion not only because that is the ordinary meaning of the word, but because contemporaneously enacted provisions of the Constitution that contain the word “militia” consistently use the term to refer to a state military entity, not to the people of the state as a whole.
     Having determined that the first clause of the Second Amendment declares the importance of state militias to the
proper functioning of the new constitutional system, we now turn to the meaning of the second clause, the effect the first clause has on the second, and the meaning of the amendment as a whole. The second clause — “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed” — is not free from ambiguity. We consider it highly significant, however, that the second clause does not purport to protect the right to “possess” or “own” arms, but rather to “keep and bear” arms. This choice of words is important because the phrase “bear arms” is a phrase that customarily relates to a military function.
     Historical research shows that the use of the term “bear arms” generally referred to the carrying of arms in military service — not the private use of arms for personal purposes.
     Finally, we address the use of the term “keep” in the second clause. The reason why that term was included in the amendment is not clear.
     When the second clause is read in light of the first, so as to implement the policy set forth in the preamble, we
believe that the most plausible construction of the Second Amendment is that it seeks to ensure the existence of effective state militias in which the people may exercise their right to bear arms, and forbids the federal government to interfere with such exercise. This conclusion is based in part on the premise, explicitly set forth in the text of the amendment, that the maintenance of effective state militias is essential to the preservation of a free State, and in part on the historical meaning of the right that the operative clause protects — the right to bear arms. In contrast, it seems reasonably clear that any fair reading of the “bear Arms” clause with the end in view of “assuring . . . the effectiveness of” the state militias cannot lead to the conclusion that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to own or possess weapons for personal and other purposes.

MY 2¢: It looks like this is the best case so far that will make its way to the Supreme Court. It will force the issue in the way that it attacks the Fifth Circuit’s decision in Emerson. The Supreme Court decides the cases that it will take up for many reasons including how much support one side or the other feels that they have to start with and if the case presents the right arguments for reaching the conclusions that will impact other cases and not be limited to just the case being argued or just a few cases. I would feel better about this if some of the more liberal Supreme Court Justices were replaced but this case will heat up the debate when replacements are put forward.

CLICK HERE TO SEE LAST YEARS STORY
U.S. v. Emerson Ruling Is In - Celebrate -- With Reservations

Delaware Judge Tosses Suit Against Gun Makers Delaware Judge Tosses Suit Against Gun Makers
CLICK HERE FOR THE WHOLE ARTICLE

Judge Fred S. Silverman has dismissed Wilmington's lawsuit against the gun industry, saying the city cannot recover police overtime and other costs from firearms manufacturers. Judge Fred S. Silverman said reducing handgun violence in Wilmington was a "laudable ulterior motive" for filing the suit, but he said the court system was not the solution. "Handgun violence is a scourge," he said. "But as much as the court would support efforts to reduce the problem, the court will not twist a jury trial involving municipal costs into a wildly expensive referendum on gun control."

 

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