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     OCShooters.com will give general information and point you to specific web sites that are related to local, state and national gun laws, handgun laws, NY State handgun license requirements, gun safety and related information.  It is designed to assist people who want to apply for a pistol license in Orange County NY under NY law PL400 or who want to know more about the rules for the license they have and to give general handgun license information for all of New York State and information to those buying your first handgun and learning true gun control.  It is designed to promote the SAFE, LEGAL AND RESPONSIBLE use of firearms and to promote the local shooting sports, clubs, gun shows, local merchants and other hunters and shooters and Orange County clubs and groups, NY State groups and National groups such as the NRA.  The E-Newsletter will highlight gun legislation, local political news, gun lawsuits, gun safety and other information important to supporters of the Second Amendments.   Most of the people that you meet will be nice and will try their best to help you.  Good Luck and please e-mail me with any comments.  
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I AM STILL WORKING ON THIS PAGE. I WILL BE ADDING MORE IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS. 1/1/2018
1/2/18 Added copy of drivers license 9th number from first page to 2nd page

THIS PAGE IS NOT INTENDED TO REPLACE THE NY STATE POLICE RECERTIFICATION PAGE. YOU MUST USE THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE NY SP WEBPAGE! I ONLY MADE THIS PAGE TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE THAT ARE NOT ADDRESSED ON THE OFFICIAL NY SP PAGES AND TO PROVIDE THE PARTS OF THE LAW THAT ARE RELATED TO THE RECERTIFICATION.

Pistol Permit Recertification

If your handgun permit was issued before 1/15/2013 you must recertify
your pistol permit even though it is a life time permit.

NO ONE IS EXEMPT OR GRANDFATHERED!
IF YOU FAIL TO RECERTIFY AND DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR PERMIT AND ALL HANDGUNS TO THE POLICE, WHEN THEY COME TO PICK UP YOUR HANDGUNS THEY WILL TAKE ALL OF YOUR GUNS INCLUDING ALL RIFLES AND SHOTGUN AND THEY WILL BE DESTROYED AND YOU WILL HAVE LITTLE OR NO LEGAL RECOURSE. AS OF 2/1/2018 12:00:01 AM IF YOU FAIL TO RECERTIFY, YOU DO NOT HAVE A HANDGUN LICENSE AND ARE THEREFORE A FELON SUBJECT TO ARREST AND A MINIMUM OF 3 1/2 YEARS IN JAIL AND IT IS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO OWN ANY GUNS!!!

Once the police have your handguns and long guns they will be legally declared a "NUISANCE"
and be destroyed just like any unregistered handgun in NY is.

If you were issued a handgun permit after 1/15/2013, you will have to recertify five years after the permit was issued. Even though the NY State Police sent out hundreds of thousands of letters notifying license holders that they had to recertify, the State Police did not send letters to everyone and NY law does not exempt you if you did not get a letter.

LINKS TO RECERTIFY

NY STATE POLICE RECERTIFICATION WEB PAGE
The website is not very clear but it has the
Online recertification link and a link to the Paper recertification form and instructions.


IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS. IF YOU SUBMIT AN INCORRECT OR INCOMPLETE FORM THE FORM WILL BE RETURNED TO YOU UNPROCESSED. 

CLICK HERE FOR MY PDF FORM THAT YOU CAN SAVE
ON YOUR COMPUTER AND FILL IN AND THEN PRINT OUT.
THIS IS THE BETA FORM, IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS PLEASE EMAIL ME. DON'T HOLD ME RESPONABLE IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE ON YOUR FORM. IF YOU ARE PRINTING OUT THE FORM GO OVER IT CAREFULLY, THEY HAVE MANY BOXES THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CHECK. ALMOST ALL OF THE FIELDS EXCEPT FOR YOUR EMAIL ADDRES ARE REQUIRED.

HOW TO USE THE FORM YOU CAN FILL OUT

OPEN THE FORM ON YOUR BROUSER AND THEN SAVE IT ON YOUR COMPUTER. CLOSE THE FORM ON YOUR BROUSER AND THEN OPEN THE COPY YOU SAVED ON YOUR COMPUTER.


(If you are mailing in your form and you have the same guns on several licenses or most of the same guns on several licenses, you can list all of the guns, print the form, (or save it under that person's name,) and then just use the same form with all of the guns by just changing the personal information.)

YOU HAVE TO PICK ONE OR THE OTHER
ONLINE OR BY MAIL
I CALLED AND IF YOU DECIDE TO DO BOTH
I WAS TOLD IT MIGHT VOID BOTH APPLICATIONS

 

Orange County has about 30,000 active pistol licenses. We know that 8,616 people have had their Pistol Application accepted by the Orange County Pistol License Department since 2013 so that leaves about 21,400 people who need to recertify. Not all of the 30,000 active pistol license holders are really active. I think that locally the Pistol License Department has done a better job than most in taking people off of the list but I would still guess that we will not end up with anything close to 30,000 active licenses after everything is said and done.

WHAT IF I NEVER CHANGED MY ADDRESS ON MY LICENSE?

     One of the incorrect statements being made, (I fell for it also,) is that if you recertify and you never changed your address as required by NY law your license will be revoked. This is NOT TRUE! This is what the section of PL400.00(10-b) states: "If the New York state police discover as a result of the recertification process that a licensee failed to provide a change of address, the New York state police shall not require the licensing officer to revoke such license."

     NY PL 400.00(9) does contain: "Notification of any change of residence shall be made in writing by any licensee within ten days after such change occurs, and a record of such change shall be inscribed by such licensee on the reverse side of his or her license." If your Judge does decide to do something they can but I would hope that they would not do anything and I don't know of anyone who has ever had their license revoked because they failed to change their address though I am sure that this is not true in NYC and other anti-gun areas and with some anti-gun Judges.

Recertify VS Renew

The recertification process only verifies that all of the information on you application and license including any changes that have been made since you were issued your last license is correct. YOUR LICENSE WILL NOT BE REVIEWED BY YOUR ISSUING AUTHORITY. If you were "Renewing" your license your issuing authority, in most of NY one of your county Judges, would review your license and reapprove the NY "proper cause" requirement that you must prove to be issued a handgun license.

WHY ARE WE DOING THIS?

  • NY lawmakers are paranoid and want to know where all handguns are at all times and who has them.
  • The NY Pistol Permit is a lifetime license and many people who were issued a license many decades ago have moved in state or out of state or have died and the NY lawmakers want to make sure that they know who is where and what they have. (My,) Past experience has shown that probably less than 40% of the "active" handgun license holders in each county are still alive and living in the same county the license was issued in. The rest have died or moved to another address in NY or another state. (Remember all of the million + people who have left NY in the past few years? Many of them had a Pistol Permit but never surrendered their permit or notified their local Pistol License Department of their new address.)
  • Anyone want to take a bet that 100% of all of the county clerks in all of the counties in NY have 100% of the time sent the required duplicate paperwork that was 100% accurate to the NY State Police as required by NY law since NY started issuing lifetime licenses? No takers? (I know even on my license some of the model numbers and calibers were not correct.)
  • Legally there is no justification to ask the courts to prevent the recertification. When the NY State Rifle and Pistol Association brought their lawsuit against the NY SAFE Act this is the one thing that they did not contest and rightfully so. How can anyone say that NY cannot legally require that their handgun license data base be correct?
Do you really want to have the local SWAT Team break into your house in the middle of the night because the serial number on the paperwork was reversed and no one caught the error and a gun with that serial number with your name attached ended up at a mass murder location?

Could NY have done this another way?

Of Course! The issuing authority, in most of NY one or more of your local county Judges, have always had the authority to review all handgun  licenses at any time. The Judges could have sent a letter to each Pistol License Holder at any interval that they wanted and if the letter came back the Judge could ask the Police to find out what was going on. Normally I would guess that the police could find out from their desk on their computer in just a few minutes by checking drivers licenses and other data bases they have access to. Can you guess who already does something like this? Do you remember getting a post card from your County Board of Elections? They send out cards once or twice a year to registered active voters and if they get the card back as "Moved or undeliverable" they take your name off of the voting rolls. If it was a mistake you can still vote, you just have to use a paper ballot. (They will not try to put you in jail for 3 1/2 years.)

THE LAW AND OTHER STUFF

WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM?

     All of this goes back to the passage of the NY SAFE Act. You have to remember the difference between NY and almost all of the rest of the country is that most other states allow you to own a handgun without getting prior permission from the state. Some states do require you to get pre-approval to buy any gun and some require prior approval just for a handgun and there are other variation but as far as I know only NY, and possibly one other state, makes it illegal for anyone to touch a handgun unless they first get permission from the state. (Some minor very limited exceptions do exist for people between 14 and 21 and the famous but totally worthless 7b exemption.) If you don’t have a license you are in violation of sections of NY Penal Law 265 and can be arrested.

WHERE IS IT THE LAW?

     The section of NY law that deals with recertification is in NY Penal Law 400.00(10-b), (see below,) with the most relevant part being: “Failure to recertify shall act as a revocation of such license.” No “ifs, ands or buts,” if you don’t recertify on time or your submitted paperwork has problems you lose your license. The law DOES NOT CONTAIN any exception clause or grandfather clause. What will happen if you don’t recertify? Look at the NY State Police Field Guide, (Page 12,):

V. 1.  … Failure to recertify acts as a revocation of the license by operation of law.

EFFECT ON POLICE Removal of weapons not surrendered

     If the license and weapons are not surrendered, they will be removed by a police officer and declared a nuisance. At that point, the person would lose the ability to lawfully transfer the weapon. If a person becomes ineligible to hold a pistol permit, the Safe Act requires the person to surrender all firearms to police, including all rifles and shotguns for which no license or registration is required.

NY Pl 400.05
The official to whom the weapon … has subsequently been declared a nuisance … shall, at any time but at least once each year, destroy the same …

WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN ON 2/1/2018
TO PEOPLE WHO DON'T RECERTIFY?

     They don't know. I called the hot line on 1/2/2018 and I asked and the person said that they don't know. They said that you will be notified that you did not recertify but who will notify you and how you will be notified and what will happen is still being worked on. One big problem is going to be how will they notify someone when they don't have their current address because the license holder never changed their address or the license holder only gets their mail at a PO Box and the only address on record is the license holder's physical address.

     I did ask what would happen if a person was driving around with handgun and they had not recertified their license? The person said that if it came up, the police would know that the license holder had not recertified and they would take their gun(s).

COULD I BE WRONG?

     Of course I can be wrong and I hope that I am wrong but no one knows for sure what will happen on 2/1/2018, in six months or longer because they are still figuring it out.  Also don’t forget that this law was not very well written but this is NY with NY Judges so no one can say how the Judges will rule in cases related to the recertification process but I have an idea and it is not very good.  Also it will take years if not decades for lawsuits caused by the implementation of the recertification process to straighten it out in court so don’t hold your breath waiting for the Judges to rule in your favor. 

THE FULL LEGAL SECTIONS

S 400.05 Disposition of weapons and dangerous instruments, appliances and substances
    . 2. The official to whom the weapon, instrument, appliance or substance which has subsequently been declared a nuisance pursuant to subdivision one of this section is so surrendered shall, at any time but at least once each year, destroy the same or cause it to be destroyed, or render the same or cause it to be rendered ineffective and useless for its intended purpose and harmless to human life.

S 400.00 Licenses to carry, possess, repair and dispose of firearms.
10-(b) All licensees shall be recertified to the division of state police every five years thereafter. Any license issued before the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph shall be recertified by the licensee on or before January thirty-first, two thousand eighteen, and not less than one year prior to such date, the state police shall send a notice to all license holders who have not recertified by such time. Such recertification shall be in a form as approved by the superintendent of state police, which shall request the license holder's name, date of birth, gender, race, residential address, social security number, firearms possessed by such license holder, e-mail address at the option of the license holder and an affirmation that such license holder is not prohibited from possessing firearms. The form may be in an electronic form if so designated by the superintendent of state police. Failure to recertify shall act as a revocation of such license. If the New York state police discover as a result of the recertification process that a licensee failed to provide a change of address, the New York state police shall not require the licensing officer to revoke such license.

NY State Police Field Guide, (Page 12,)

: V. PISTOL PERMITS

1.     Recertification Process The Safe Act has amended section 400.00 of the Penal Law to require that all pistol permits be renewed, or recertified, every 5 years beginning in January of 2014. Every existing permit holder will be required to recertify using a quick, free process that will begin in early 2014 on a staggered basis. Failure to recertify acts as a revocation of the license by operation of law. During the renewal process, the database will be checked to ensure that the licensee is still qualified to possess the weapon. Detailed recertification procedures are currently being developed and will be explained to all permit holders in 2014.

2.     Pistol Permit records to be confidential / “Opt Out” Forms All state records relating to the Safe Act , including pistol permit renewal records , are specifically exempt from disclosure by statute. In addition, county permit records will not be subject to disclosure if the permit holder files an “Opt Out” form with the county. This form is available at http://www.nysafeact.com or http://www.troopers.ny.gov/optoutfoil

3.     Becoming ineligible at later time results in revocation If a licensee at any time becomes ineligible to hold a license, the license is considered to be revoked under an amendment to PL 400.00 (11). In such case, the person is required to surrender his or her license to the appropriate licensing official and any and all firearms, rifles or shotguns owned or possessed by the person must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency.

EFFECT ON POLICE

Removal of weapons not surrendered

If the license and weapons are not surrendered, they will be removed by a police officer and declared a nuisance. At that point, the person would lose the ability to lawfully transfer the weapon.

If a person becomes ineligible to hold a pistol permit, the Safe Act requires the person to surrender all firearms to police, including all rifles and shotguns for which no license or registration is required.

FINAL WORD

     Do you remember the Ammo Background Check that was part of the unSAFE Act? It never happened because what the law called for and what is possible are two different things. The people who wrote that section of the law had no idea how the NICS Check worked or the millions of rounds that are sold in NY every year. (The anti-gunners think we all go out and buy one box of 50 .22s or a box of 20 9MMs and that last us for a few years.) Like the old CoBIS program, even Cuomo finally had to give up and halt the attempt to implement the program. The same people who wrote that part of the law wrote this part of the law and it is going to work just as well.

     Even if everything works and on 2/1/2018 all of the mailed in forms and been entered into the data base and combined with the people who recertified on-line now what? They don't know. The idea is that they compare everyone who has recertified against everyone who has an active license from all of the counties that this applies to, (NYC, Long Island and Westchester have their own systems,) and they spit out a list of active license holders who have not recertified who now have their license revoked. What are they going to do with the list? They have to send the list to the local counties to notify them something like "Blah- blah- blah ... the following people have failed to recertify and their license has been revoked." Now what is the County Clerk suppose to do with this list that will have thousands if not tens of thousands of names on it? This is where it gets really ugly.

OPTION 1: The County Clerk should turn over the list to the Sheriff's Department and or the local Police where each person lives and the Sheriff's Department and or Police should go to the now felon's house and collect all of their handguns and long guns, declare them a "nuisance" and destroy them. The chance that the Sheriff's Department/Police Department and even the State Police really want to do that or will do that is close to ZERO.

OPTION 2: The County Clerk will turn over the list to the Sheriff's Department and or the local Police where each person lives and the Sheriff's Department and or Police research and make several list.

  1. A list has everyone who died and then someone has to track down what happened to all of the guns on the dead person's license.
  2. A list that has everyone who moved out of state and never changed their address on their license. They are sent a letter that their license is revoked. (A small number of people are allowed to have a handgun license under the Osterweil v. Bartlet decision. These people will have to notify the county where they have their license and then follow what the people in List #3 do.)
  3. A list of everyone who still lives in NY and did not recertify. They should be sent a letter informing them that their license is revoked and they have to turn in all of their handguns or show they have disposed of them and they have to reapply for a handgun license and if they don't do that with in X numbers of days the police will come to their house and take all of their handguns and long guns. (I hope the people are not on vacation or in the hospital.)

OPTION 3: Do nothing. The local counties could get the list and just do nothing. As people filed amendments to change their handgun license for various reasons like a change of address or to add or remove a handgun, the person would be informed that their license had been revoked and they had to turn in all of their handguns and reapply for a handgun license.. As the police came across people who had not recertified they could arrest them and take all of their guns away to be destroyed.

OPTION 4: Who knows? The State Police, the County Clerks and other local officials could go to Albany and demand this be done some other way but I would not hold my breath. It is not like the NYC anti-gunners are going to go along with anything, after all, they really want all of our guns taken away and to have all of us all locked up.

    As you can guess all of this is going to take thousands of man person hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars in many counties. Many people will have to reapply for a license if that is allowed and because failure to recertify would be a valid reason for a Judge to reject an application, no one can be guarantee that their Judge will be sympathetic to someone who did not recertify. It would be nice if they had included in the law some ability for people to recertify at a later date at their local county Pistol License Department but they did not so the only way to get a new handgun license is to reapply unless they just decide to ignore the law and the Judges just "reissue" the handgun license. (It will not be the first or only time the Judges or Counties have done what the want and not what is in the law.) In any event this is going to take a long time and gobs of money and the counties don't have the money or personal to do any of this in a timely manner.

     It could be worse and that is not to say it will not get worse in the future if the anti-gunners from NYC gain total control of NY and that is only a matter of time. NY City has renewable licenses every three years and it cost them $340, (yes NYSRPA already brought a lawsuit and lost,) and their license is only good in NYC and you have to keep your gun at your home and take it to the range in NYC. Long Island and Westchester also have additional fees so a $10 lifetime license, free recertification and $5 or less amendments doesn't sound too bad especially when you realize it is possible for many people to get an unrestricted license in most but not all of upstate and that is almost impossible in NYC, Long Island, Westchester, Rockland counties. Don't forget that ammo background check. California has shown the way and NY could always require that you get a license to buy ammo. WILL THE LAST PRO-GUN PERSON LEAVING THE STATE --- WHO CARES?

IF YOU FIND ANY ERRORS PLEASE EMAIL ME.